5/3/06
Much of "Declining by Degrees" was liberal nonsense about their revisionist concepts of an America social contract. The film promoted the GI Bill as some part of our forgotten past, yet the GI Bill still exists today. I attended college on the GI Bill and the Navy College Fund. Beyond the historical fallacies, the producers clearly either did not understand economics, or chose to ignore economics. They claim education at good schools has become too expensive because we failed our social contract. Yet, they also showed how schools are overflowing with students while they also build resort-like campuses. collapse

The simple fact is that plenty of money is available to students who want to attend college, and as a consequence, colleges are competing on luxuries rather than costs. My alma mater has a Zen garden on campus. To bolster their absurd claims, the producers show poor students who either attend community colleges or work full-time to pay tuition. They even highlight one student who withdrew from classes three weeks before the end of the semester because she had money troubles. Yet, the producers ignore the economic ignorance that allows students to make such decisions. It would be better to not work full-time, borrow money and graduate early. Alas, such wisdom is absent from the producers, the social activist experts and the students highlighted.


4/11/06
I feel college is not a end all and as many have said, it's not for everybody. I feel it is also not for every job or industry to have its field filtered through the college system. All one has to do is count how many "film school sucks" shirts just to see what's happening. Film pros could care less about the next intern's GPA or what they got in micronomics, microbiology or even calculus. Unless you are trying to be a bean counter for a studio, hard academics is not a "must" to be a director, editor, grip, make up artist or even a CGI geek. The irony is that a really good "film education" makes one a horrible film rookie.


2/16/06
I think that overall the documentary was well put together. It was intriguing and insightful to the general audience. I think that the documentary's weakness was that it did not interview students who do not work which would have added to the variety it offered. Also, it seemed to focus on the downside but did not allow for any criticism or other point of view. Just some observations. Glad that the documentary featured my school, Western Kentucky University. Go Hilltoppers and shout out to our school mascot, Big Red.


1/18/06
The institutions of higher education have become "business of higher eduction." While this may be a natural evolution, I think that this course propels academics to a secondary position, with survival being first. There are many other inputs into this process that need to be considered. I am an adult learner, and have taught business and marketing at a private college as an adjunct for over 15 years. collapse

One input to consider is the quality of the product that walks into the college arena. What are we doing at the high school level to really prepare students for the academic and social/cultural realities of college? The second input is the quality of the instructors. Inspired teaching that engages the student and that makes learning a process of discovery is rare at the college level. The reliance on technology and lecture is just not making the connection with students. The third input is the community and family unit, and the importance placed on hard work, academics, and ethics. There are school systems in communities that consistently deliver high quality, well prepared students to the academic community. Shouldn't this the the norm rather than the exception? Finally, not only this country, but the global community stands to lose if the decay in academics continues in the U. S. Consider all the international students who come to this country every year, and pay the highest tuition rates in order to gain an education from our system. I think this documentary raises some important issues, and I plan to use it in several courses that I instruct.


11/18/05
After watching "Declining by Degrees", reading the book, and reading the website, I set up a preview and discussion session with our faculty. Even if no one showed up (Fridays are quiet in this community college), I'm not discouraged. I intend to follow up and keep on trying to raise awareness of the key issues raised in DbD. This site is a wonderful resource.


11/1/05
Great site - excellent interviews. Thank God someone is finally talking about these issues, and the general failure of universities to do their jobs.


10/13/05
I thought "Declining By Degrees" was good, however, you never mentioned non-traditional students (such as myself) who work 40 hours a week while going to community college. It takes a lot of effort and hard work. I never took SAT's and had to learn algebra which I never took in High School. I was afraid of college; in high school counselors made it seem impossible for someone such as me to get into college. "You have to take SAT's," they said. I think nontraditional learners, such as myself, were not given complete information on the college picture. Nor were you. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE SAT's if you have a ASSOCIATE's DEGREE. I got some of my credits through Assessment of Prior Learning which is a great college program that gave me 50 college credits. College was fun and being an older nontraditional student I found my experience to be excellent.


9/23/05
I am sad to hear all of this, especially because I am only in my 3rd year of Community College and was anxious to one day transfer to a 4 year university. It makes me sad that after so many years of people telling me that college is good and that I should go to a university, etc. etc., that the question comes up: "Is it really your money's worth?" I don't plan on hearing this and not doing anything about it. I am going to take full advantage of my being able to go to college. I want to make it the best college experience ever and leave it educated.


9/19/05
This is the best and most relevant documentary I’ve seen in a long time. I was most interested in the segment about how little work is required of students. I found this to be the case during my education. I always got higher grades than I expected. I found that I could do the minimum amount of work and still get good grades. I think that most kids at that age are not mature enough to do the work when it’s not expected or required by teachers. collapse

Entering graduate school, I expected the program to be more rigorous than my undergraduate program—and I was ready to do the work. However, I even found my graduate program to be much less challenging than I expected. As a teacher’s assistant I found that students expected to get A’s just for doing the work. There was no thought for the quality of the work. The one exception I observed at school was in the engineering programs. I was a social science undergraduate and could get by doing the minimum work; however, engineering students I knew had to do much more work just to keep up. It probably has to do with the nature of engineering and hard sciences. Is this just a symptom of the social sciences? I wish the program had explored this a little more.


9/5/05
I am proud to note that this book is beginning the dialogue that is so important and unfortunately past due. I'm also pleased to note that my university, the University of Connecticut, has taken what is promised as only the first step: a book discussion group involving faculty, staff, administration, and others outside the university. I'm excited to have been chosen to help lead these discussions. I have read and am studying the book and finally have been able to watch my copy of the DVD. Both are excellent and filled with much good information. One sad item to note: Our local PBS system chose to show the program on a summer Sunday afternoon when I and I'm sure many others had previous plans. I would like to see this program repeated now that school is back in session - at a time more conducive for people to see it and maybe even with a companion panel discussion involving appropriate individuals familiar with the book/DVD and connected with the very important topics associated with both.


9/4/05
It is a great documentary report (just saw the TV version). The one point that I don't agree with is a minor one: that classroom conversation-- interaction-- is needed to stimulate students. Maybe it is for many; I found lectures in college more instructive.


9/2/05
I am one of thousands of "part-time" or "adjunct faculty" who teach in higher education. Does your program investigate the affects of the overuse of part-time instructors in higher education. My stand is that the system is impacted in two ways: Part-time instructors (like me) often teach on multiple campuses and actually carry more of a teaching load than full-time, and with fewer full-time faculty on campuses, our tenured colleagues have to carry a greater load of non-instructional responsibilities. If you haven't already investigated this aspect, you should.


9/2/05
I watched the documentary last night. I must say most of hit at home, especially the part about the 63 year old adjunct. I have been an adjunct for a couple of years now and there is no end in sight. I graduated from college in 2001 and earned my MFA by 2003. While I attended prestigious institutions who granted me scholarships, I am still $70,000 in debt (all of it student loans). I truly enjoy teaching and consider myself a solid teacher. I consistently receive great evaluations from both students and co-workers. Additionally being a professor is my dream job. Yet sadly I will in all likelihood be leaving the profession. collapse

I would love to be offered a full time position, yet that will never happen not only because of the budget cuts but also because I do not have a Phd or many publications to my name. I cannot afford to return to school for a Phd until I save up money (however paying back my loans negates any substantial savings). And as for publication, well correcting 90 papers every two weeks, severely cuts into my writing time. I feel like I am in a unique position because that dream of getting a solid, well paying job with benefits by obtaining a college degree has been hampered by the debt I accrued while in college. On top of that I am encouraging students to do the same. I am telling them that college is worth their time and money, even if it means debt in the long run. I was one of those students who wasn't exactly poor but wasn't middle class either. I had to work many hours a week to pay my way through both undergraduate and graduate school. I loved my experiences at both schools and want to pass that on to my students. Yet I cannot do so with the amount of money I make, the lack of benefits and now the rising gas prices (I drive almost 500 miles per week during the semester). One of the schools I teach at is no longer requiring adjuncts to hold office hours because there is no longer office space for us (not even shared spa! ce). It makes me very sad to realize that unless something changes I will have to leave this profession and find another way to put my teaching skills to good use.


8/23/05
I have just finished watching the documentary "Declining by Degrees" and thought the message it presented is what myself and others from the rest of the developed world had suspected: that universities in the US do not produce independent thinkers but those who take the 'path of least resistance'. I have come from Australia, where a culture of students taking a degree of responsibility for their own learning prevails. I have been dismayed by the complete lack of critical thinking, basic literacy and a general 'follow the pack' attitude that many university graduates seem to display. Writing skills and just basic literacy seem to be sorely lacking in many, to the point that I wonder if these are a part of the general education system at all. An entitlement mentality precedes many (not all) that enter university that says turning up to class should grant them an A or at least a B. It must be a very frustrating experience for those students who genuinely put in the work but are not as bright or hampered by having to work as well, sitting beside other students who breeze through and show no application or effort whatsoever. collapse

The majority of jobs being created in the economy now and into the future will be in the knowledge sector where the skills of critical thinking, cross disciplinary problem solving and lateral thought will be highly sought after and rewarded. Many institutions do not seem to realize that it is not enough for students to get a degree, they must learn how to take control of their own learning for the rest of their lives if they wish to be professionally employed in these industries, usually in the science and engineering fields. It is less important for those graduating to know how to solve a fourth order differential equation, or in general regurgitate information, than it is to learn how to manage a multi-national team, effectively delegate tasks to those working under them, communicate technical ideas to non-technical people and to take a strategic perspective of how they fit into the larger organization in which they work. The most basic tenet that university can instill in a graduate is a willingness to learn, to put them into a mode of operation that sees them looking for new experiences, constantly questioning 'why?', taking in information, interpreting it and using it in ways that furthers their or their organization’s objectives. Many say that something needs to be done lest institutions of higher learning lose their way. I'd suggest that that's already happened and it's up to individuals to stop waiting for others to show them the way, be pro-active and take responsibility for their own learning. The future's going to be a very prosperous place for those who are willing to take responsibility; they'll have the lion's share. For those who are passive and just react to circumstance instead of creating it, they'll get what's left.


8/11/05
I saw your documentary and was impressed enough to buy the book and the video. Only fleeting mention is made in the essays is the role of online learning, which has the potential to remedy many of the ills described in your book. Let me explain.

Online learning was catapulted into fame by the Internet but dominated by IT professionals, blissfully unaware of the importance of pedagogy ­ how students actually learn, and the vital role of professors. Unfortunately, most online learning is a sorry compilation of professors' notes and slides, with limited ability to adapt to each student's needs or to measure the students learning and grasp of key concepts. Much of what passes as online learning is provided by "Content Management Systems", which do little more than provide an administrative framework, and do nothing to advance student learning per se. Small wonder that drop out rates (from online courses) are around 50%, that faculty workloads (to answer student email questions) actually increase with online learning. To my knowledge, none of the current online courses (with one exception) meet NEASC's "Best Practices for Electronic Offered Degree and Certificate Programs". collapse

Properly designed online programs, adapting to the needs of individual students, and blending online instruction with face-to-face instruction represent a quantum jump in learning. The time of the professor is thus freed for higher level discussions with properly prepared students. Courses that adapt to each individual and provide feedback on her or his progress, create a substantial jump in student engagement. Dr. Sonwalkar, Principal Education Architect at MIT, spent five years researching how students learn and, only then, developed the computer software to make his research a reality. The software provides for concept maps, diagnostic quizzes, learning styles that automatically adapt to each student, and a complete range of reports on each student. When pedagogy is the driver, the number of email questions from students is cut by two thirds, with completion rates in the ninetieth percentile. A useful by product is that overall costs are reduced by 50%, potentially solving one of higher educations most pressing problems. Dr. Sonwalkar can be reached at nish@mit.edu. He is the author of numerous publications on pedagogy and online learning and author of Changing the Interface of Education with Revolutionary Learning Technologies: (iUniverse, Inc. 2005)


8/9/05
I saw the documentary on PBS about a month ago and thought it was absolutely fantastic. I hope to purchase the video and show it to the freshmen enrolled in the course I am teaching this fall, as part of my course. I think we will just watch the first hour and 15 minutes, not the whole 2 hours. It should make for some very interesting discussion afterwards!


8/1/05
I have a program that follows student through the college process for four years. Professors are working with us to improve the quality of education and monitoring our students for success.


7/28/05
An excellent documentary overall. Although, I have to say, that having personally observed Dr. Kurzer in the classroom, I felt that the documentary did her an enormous injustice. It was apparent to me that she is diligent in doing everything possible to engage her students, despite the apathy of a great majority of the undergraduates. Her lectures are both interesting and entertaining and she obviously devotes significant time to developing classroom experiences that will engage her students. When I've attended her lectures, I've found them to be insightful and thought provoking. I also know that she goes the extra mile to extend help to any student who requests it, to the point of making special trips into her office to meet with students at their request. The documentary suggested that she didn't stop her lectures frequently to ask if there were any questions. While that may have been true of the lecture witnessed by the documentary maker, it is ludicrous to suggest that a lecture for hundreds of students take the form of a discussion session. I wish the documentary makers had chosen also to film Dr. Kurzer in a one-on-one session with one of her students. It would have painted a more accurate picture of the caring and compassionate teacher that she is.


7/27/05
I loved this documentary when I saw it a month or so ago. I've told so many people about it. I hope it is aired more frequently than I've been able to find it. Even though I graduated almost 10 years ago from college, I completely related to the attitude of the students (and faculty for that matter) in this program.

I entered college with an expectation that I would have to "buckle down", and it actually turned out to be a breeze. Basically, I showed up, did a little work, and graduated with a 3.4 GPA. Today, I have a good job that I needed a degree to get, but could be doing with the knowledge I had in high school. Really, it is appalling, and I applaud you for making this documentary to finally shed some light on this waste of four years of young people's academic lives.


7/21/05
What a compelling program. It should be mandatory viewing for everyone on campuses throughout the USA. The companion book and the video provide important and powerful new insights into the growing crisis in academe. There are only two things that could have been added had you had more time... collapse

First, it was not really pointed out that so much of the "research" that faculty publish for fear of perishing is simply pseudoscience. I and others have documented this in educational research on numerous occasions, and I know it is a flaw in most social science research conducted by academics. The benefits of this research for the public at large are dubious at best. As I have written, it is time to put the "public" back in publication.

Second, while you did discuss the workload of the community college instructor, I think few people understand the hours worked by faculty in research universities. The best research indicates that faculty in research universities average 57 hours of work per week, but my colleagues and I find this to be an underestimation. Being a professor has evolved into a job that is never done, and 70-80 plus hours weeks are the norm.

But the bottom line is that your video and book should be a wakeup call for academe.


7/21/05
I was amazed at how familiar these stories were. I have heard these EXACT points of view for years, coming from my friends, co-workers, students, and professors, but never heard them reflected in the media. Thank you for making such an important and honest film.


7/19/05
On this site I read the comments of those who appear to be surprised that some students may be unprepared for college. If we had been keeping up with US Department of Education, National Assessments of Education Progress (NAEP) studies, we wouldn't be surprised. These studies, which are published every other year (I believe) assess 4th, 8th and 12th grade students, with regard to Math, Science, and Reading, according to "authentic" instruments, rather than "normed" measurements

(The students of Lake Woebegone, who according to Garrison Keeler, "are all above average," are obviously assessed with a "normed" measuring instrument. Figures don't lie but liars sure can figure.)collapse

I find the NAEP reading results most telling... 70% of our students can NOT read (competently comprehend) their own textbooks, only 30% can and only 5% are reading beyond their own grade level. What is beyond the grade level of a 12th grader?

Apparently, DOE and the NAEP studies have been telling us that only 5% of 12th graders can read at college level.

If this is the case, if the majority of our college freshmen cannot read their own textbooks, how can we expect them to succeed in college? Obviously, they can not and they don't! By sending our freshmen children and money to schools where so many will drop out because they are unprepared, is our money just funding graduate classes and professors who work only a fraction of the hours we work to pay that tuition?

So, why does our reading skill curriculum end in the 3rd or 4th grade? If boys are not normally ready to begin reading until 2-3 years after girls are ready, practically speaking, do boys receive only 1 or 2 years of reading instruction? And why are the NAEP studies published in secret now, and why are the results so difficult to find?

If the pond that is higher education is dirty and stinks, perhaps we should look up stream. If 70% of our students are failing to learn to read well enough to read their own textbooks, should we be awarding and rewarding their teachers and that system? Do teachers go home crying because they have failed to teach 70% of our students to read well enough to read their own text books?

Does our education system produce good readers or does our system produce average and below average readers... readers who don't read well enough to enjoy reading, readers who don't read well enough to want to practice the skills of reading that can enable them to improve their reading skills? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

If our system doesn't produce good and excellent readers, how are they produced? Do our reading skills reflect our intelligence? Wasn't Einstein dyslexic?

If the system is broken, why do we continue supporting it? If the system is broken who should be fixing it? Should it be those who appear to be quite satisfied with a 5% or even 30% success rate? If you had 10 children or grandchildren, would you be satisfied with a system that fails to teach 9 or even 7 of them? What business could succeed with those numbers? When we pay a business for a service, do we expect results? What is the largest business in nearly every state?


7/18/05
I am a junior faculty member at the University of Arizona. I thought the documentary was very well balanced, placing responsibility on federal, state, and university administration. It is true that, while the university tells parents that teaching is our highest priority, junior faculty are told that teaching is not important for tenure. I enjoy teaching; the reward is instantaneous (unlike publishing and bringing in grant moneys, which can take months). And, I dislike teaching large classes as much as my students despise taking them. I try to foster a small-class feel as much as possible, encouraging participation in lecture, pausing to make sure they understand concepts, asking for demonstration volunteers, asking questions, etc; but I hate that I am not given the chance to get to know them personally.


7/14/05
I saw your 2-hour PBS presentation a couple of weeks ago. I watched with dismay and sadness. Having had the experience of teaching at 2 universities, seeing the current state of higher education is disheartening.

I'm now retired, but our 18-year-old grandson will be starting his university experience this autumn. I'm concerned about what he will encounter.

Also of great concern to me is the growth of what I consider bogus degree mills, the University of Phoenix for example. I applied for a position to teach statistics at the local campus and was accepted. I turned down the opportunity when I learned that the course was taught in 20 hours, 4 hours a night from 6 to 10 p.m. It is my opinion that no one can adequately learn a subject under such circumstances, especially if one has put in an 8-hour day at a full-time job. I suggest that an expose of these degree mills be telecast. Do businesses actually accept certificates as adequate from such instruction?


7/9/05
This is a terrific topic and glad to see that PBS is taking on what has generally been considered a liberal haven - higher education. The hope and promise of higher education in America is jeopardized by the ambitions of career academics more concerned about building their resumes for their next college job, then they are about raising standards, improving the quality of the student experience or controlling costs and ensuring access to qualified students. This is important work that needs attention by not just society but also the academics that have created the crisis we face today.


7/8/05
I have to congratulate for preparing this excellent documental. However there was one topic that you didn't point out. I am referring to the high power that undergraduate students have against their international teaching assistants. I, as a graduate student, and many of my friends from other fields experienced the pressure that undergraduates put on our shoulders when they do not get a higher grade. collapse

I got my undergraduate education in South America and when I was an undergraduate I had to work very hard in order to get good grades. I heard similar experience by students from Asia, Europe and Africa. So, when we (international grad students) came to the USA higher education system, we had a bad experience and got disappointed about the lack of interest that American undergraduate students show in our classes. From my own experience I had to decrease the level of the class in order that they be "happy" because if I keep the high standard I can be threaten, accused of discrimination or lack of preparation which will be at the end affecting my TA position. I actually read in my university newspaper an accusation from an undergrad to a Chinese TA to be an unprepared TA. The true of the story was that this undergrad was doing very badly in this class so he found a way to threaten his TA. So, at the end, in order to avoid the problem, most of the TA just have to follow the USA university system which consist in please your client" "the student" because if not you can be taken out from the system. This is very sad situation because you feel that you (as an educator) are cheating the principles that you learned as an undergraduate in your home country.


7/8/05
The current (July-August 2005) issue of the Harvard Magazine features a fine piece, "Deep into Sleep," reminding one how extensively lack of sleep impairs performance: "[y]our ability to do critical thinking takes a massive hit--you're knocking out the frontal-cortex functions," and "being awake more than 24 hours impairs performance as much as having a blood-alcohol level of 0.1 percent--which is legally drunk."

But isn't this precisely the state in which physicians are "trained"--all the more tragic inasmuch as patients are deliberately and unnecessarily put at risk. Why not turn your attention next to the flaws of graduate-level education? What you find may well make "Declining by Degrees" look like a G-rated film.


7/8/05
On my father's side, I was the first person in my family to graduate from high school so the idea of me attending college and graduating, with honors, was shocking and exciting. Attending a large public university was daunting and I wondered countlessly if I were going to finish. In order to make my time more enjoyable I joined a multitude of organizations on campus and held a variety of leadership positions. Because college graduation wasn't expected of me, I performed very well in the classroom in order to prove others wrong. Many of my classmates had a different perspective on college. Some of them were the sons of daughters of affluent doctors, lawyers or businessman and knew that upon graduation they would be taken care. My future was uncertain, but I knew I wanted to work with people and also wanted a graduate degree. I am now a second year Master of Social Work student at the University of Michigan working with families and youth. I'm also applying to PhD programs in education. Getting to this point was a challenge, but because I had a very supportive family and a helping of motivation and ambition opportunities came forth.


7/7/05
WOW! Excellent program! Astonishing! I watched in rapt fascination as this excellent program dispelled some of the major myths about the great American dream of college. I have a child in college, and this really made things clear. I'm going to have him watch it. I feel you left out only one critical part of the equation... the PARENTS! As a parent I'm very mad to think that all that money is just being squandered on a system where teachers are NOT rewarded to teach, but only to do research. I'm looking to do something about it now by getting some kind of college PTA group going. THANKS for such a FABULOUS PROGRAM!


7/7/05
Your program on Higher Education at Risk did an excellent job of spelling out many of the problems higher education faces today. As a recent college graduate in 2004, I have witnessed first hand many of facts and issues that you discovered during your two-year tour of universities. Unless college presidents and federal, state, and local politicians get their act together, we will continue to fall behind those students abroad.


7/7/05
I watched your program, "Declining by Degrees", with great interest. Your presentation of the issues and challenges facing higher education was interesting and provocative. However, there is another side to your story on what institutions of higher education are doing to address these challenges. The National Consortium on Continuous Improvement in Higher Education (NCCI) advances sustainable excellence in higher education by promoting the practice and discipline of continuous improvement across all academic and administrative functions. More information on NCCI can be found at our website at: http://www.ncci-cu.org/.

As chair of this year's annual program committee, I am extending an open invitation for you to attend our annual conference to cover institutional responses to the challenges outlined in your program. This year's conference is being held in Baltimore, MD at the Marriott Waterfront Hotel from July 8-10. Attached is the program. Better coverage of what is happening on the positive side of the ledger may lend some balance to the conversation on improving higher education in the U.S.


7/7/05
Congratulations on putting together a great documentary on the current status of higher education. Seeing what goes on in the majority of colleges and universities makes one appreciate the unique opportunities to learn offered by Dartmouth and its small peer group. The clip on Amherst certainly was a contrast to the situations at Arizona and Western Kentucky.

I rather liked Prof. Tom Fleming and his style of teaching. It's a shame that his niche of teaching astronomy to non-science majors prevents him from being on the tenure track. I guess the adage "publish or perish" that we heard as undergraduates is even more prevalent today (based on what the professors in "Declining by Degrees" had to say, it's a professor's marching orders for advancement). I also experienced a sort of "love/hate" reaction to Prof. Paulette Kurzer. The former because she has become a realist in how our deteriorating system operates (both student and professor compromise on what they expect from each other). The latter because she doesn't seem connected to her students and feels no need to instill a desire to learn or expand the boundaries of knowledge in those she teaches.

As your documentary so aptly points out, the real crime is the reduced educational funding that is being made available to those students who need it. We seem to be moving on the down side of the curve as more students who need grants (in addition to loans) are unable to get enough aid to receive higher education. This is a loss we, as a society, can never recoup.


7/6/05
High schools are in serious troubles because of their boring lectures and obsolete system. Many books, and movies must be made with real life situations in order to inform people and create the awareness to have a change.


7/4/05
I found the program very interesting and accurate. I stayed up until 2:30am to watch the re-airing last weekend. I am a junior at the University of Texas at Austin and I can attest to the sames types of situations. Dont get me wrong, I love it there, but I feel that we aren't really being taught to think but to memorize and master a multiple choice test. I feel also that professors are more interested in research than teaching students. I am also borrowing several thousands to attend each year. My freshman year, I had to take out at 12,000+ loan to cover my expenses. I hope they show this program again so others will be able to see it.


7/3/05
I just watched the documentary "Declining by Degrees." I was able to relate to the issue of students attending local community colleges because they could not afford to go to a 4-year university. When I was in high school, I knew what was my path (community college and going to a regional 4-year state university) because I was going to have to pay for college myself and get help through pell grants. I almost did not receive my my bachelors degree because I felt lost (as with many other community college transfer students). I attended college at one of the 23 campuses that are a part of the California State University system. There were no programs for transfer students and I had to find my own way to survive. I have my 4-year degree but know many other transfer students were not as fortunate. collapse

I currently work for the university I received my bachelors degree. My position is paid for by a grant. Through my observation I see how overworked the professors and staff are at the CSU campus I work for at this time. The grant that is funding my position is an administrative position to support a much needed graduate academic program in the community. If it was not for outside funding, this new graduate academic program would not exist. My job is so stressful...looking at the budget, looking for more money, and not to mention I have NO job security. I will only have a job IF there is continued funding. My dreams of working in higher education are starting to fade because I am no longer sure if I can handle the pressure and stress. I am sick almost on a weekly basis. I am thinking about leaving higher education, but I am not sure at this time. I do enjoy working with the students.


7/3/05
I am an undergrad at a Californian college and I just wanted to address the issue of "drifting through college." No student should be able to "scan chapters" before a test and then make the dean's list. This is the fault of the professors more than anyone else. As one of these "test killing" students myself, I know from experience that it only happens with professors who use poorly designed exams.collapse As for the problem of higher education, I haven't watched the documentary, but let's face it: The high school and college atmosphere that young kids create and universities promote just isn't conducive to academic learning. Academics have been put on the backburner so that we can promote social butterflies and the NCAA. I'm sorry but when companies are complaining that students are unprepared for the job then the incoming freshmen aren't going to help with 10 extracurricular activities. I knew many people from high school who loved learning and achieved highly academically but didn't have true inspiration for an extracurricular activity. Unfortunately they were either rejected from or didn't apply to great schools because a dumb blonde that cheerleads apparently has more potential for being outgoing. The truth is that anyone can out of the blue decide to participate in the community, but the pursuit of knowledge and growth takes time to instill. Universities' admission! ons need to care more about who students are and what they think (ala the essay) than what they do.


7/2/05
I was on faculty at BYU for 14 years before leaving to attend law school. As the prelaw advisor there, I became (among prelaw advisors) an expert in financial aid. I saw exactly what your show illustrates in terms of the stress of debt and the cost of education in my students. I created the only debt and career management conference that I am aware of for my prelaw students. Each year over 200 students, spouses, and parents attended our conference where I recruited speakers and experts to teach my students how to manage their educational, credit, and debt choices so that they could continue on to law school and have a productive career after graduation. These issues are incredibly important. It's too bad that legislatures have shifted to using resources to support other kinds of entities at the expense of educating future leaders and workers of America.


7/2/05
Your documentary does a good job of illustrating how sharply state and federal funding has fallen over the past thirty years, causing many students to take out enormous loans and others to drop out and miss the opportunities that college can provide. And you do a good job of showing what a good, small, student-oriented college looks like (Amherst). collapse However, when you show the reliance on part-time instructors and the problem of large, impersonal classes, you paint this as a new phenomenon. In fact, large lectures and limited student access to professors has been around as long as higher education itself. As one of the faculty at a small extension campus of a major state-supported university, I can tell you that we are doing something about these problems. It is possible to provide quality education at an affordable price, with small class sizes and emphasis on teaching. More-and-more, students are choosing to attend campuses like ours, where they receive a top-flight education and most graduate nearly debt-free.


6/30/05
Thanks for your provocative film.

Alas, colleges and universities in the United States morphed long ago into Clubs Med where, in the main, remedial high-school work is done and where fun and games prevail.

Even the integrity of America's premier academic institutions has been compromised in bizarre ways. Think, for example, of the unjust practice of seeking diversity in admissions and faculty hiring--a practice which inevitably leads to the dumbing-down of the institution and of society at large. Think of the ill wind of "political correctness" putting minds in straitjackets everywhere. collapse

What is needed for starters is serious reform of American secondary-school education. That would force colleges to become the places of higher learning they now pretend they are. Secondary and higher education across the Atlantic and Pacific have not, by the way, been similarly languishing. Foreigners with secondary-school educations are already a cut above American "college" graduates.

As a commentator in your report hinted, political institutions in the United States cannot (and already do not in my view) properly function in the absence of an educated and enlightened citizenry.


6/29/05
Can we start with the statistical lies. Like your "Test Your Knowledge" question that tells folks that we, at the US Department of Ed, say the "average age" of "undergraduate college students" is 26. Nonsense! First, we can't claim "average" of anything because that's not the way we collect the data. collapse

We don't have individual student records with birthdates. Second, go to the "Digest of Education Statistics 2003" (the most recent edition), table 177, page 225, and see if you can do some arithmetic (yes, "arithmetic"!). 4th column from the left, "Total Undergraduate" 13,715,610. Subtract those of unknown age and you get 13,436,086. That's called a "denominator." Duh! Add the other numbers, by age, sequentially, and you will find that 66.7 percent are under the age of 25. If two-thirds are under the age of 25, there is no way in God's kingdom that the "average age is 26."---unless, by chance, you are including Elderhostels (we don't, because those are not credit students). If you want to leave people with the impression that higher education is an old folks home, you are flat-out wrong. Furthermore, with larger high school graduating classes during the baby-boom echo and the same proportion (about 65%) of high school graduates continuing to some form of postsecondary education, it is common sense that the undergraduate population has gotten younger. Use your noodle! Even in community colleges, which myth has it to be retirement homes, the proportion of students 22 and under went from 32 to 42 percent between 1992 and 2001. Give us all a break! Your kids--not your brother-in-law--ar! Still the vast majority of undergraduate students, and last anybody looked, your kids are pretty young.


6/29/05
Now, let's go to the big lie #2: who graduates? Read the following sentence carefully:

Of traditional-age students who attend a bachelor's degree granting institution at some time (thus including community college transfers), roughly 2 out of 3 will earn a bachelor's degree by age 26/27. collapse

Notice how that is written. It does not include in either numerator or denominator people whose only postsecondary school was the Hollywood Beauty Academy or Greentree Valley Community College's emergency medical tech licensing program. It says that we count as potential bachelor's degree candidates only those people who actually walked through the door of a bachelor's degree-granting institution. To do it any other way is fraud!

How do we know "2 out of 3"? Because we have national longitudinal studies that follow huge samples from high school through college and use transcript records to do it. Funny thing about transcripts---they neither lie, exaggerate, nor forget. Then we say "traditional-age." Yeah, because other longitudinal studies have told us that traditional-age and older students live on different planets, and it is fundamentally dishonest to combine them when judging the system. You judge those populations separately (and students who start college at age 19 finish at a much, much higher rate than those who start at age 29--is anyone in the house surprised?). Too, the longitudinal studies follow the student, not the institution: and when nearly 60 percent of traditional-age undergraduate attend more than one school, and 20 percent of those who started in 4-year schools and earn bachelor's degrees earned the degree from a different school, the 2 out of 3 gives the student credit for persistence--no matter how, when, or where.

The 2 out of 3 is not a 4-year graduation rate and not a 6-year rate: it's "by age 26/27," which is in the 8-9 year range from high school graduation. Now, ask any family in American which is more important---the fact that the kid graduated or how long it took them? Want to put some money on the table on the answer?

But there are two other issues here. First, whether 2 out of 3 is good given the expansion of the system, particularly when there are gaps by race/ethnicity and SES. I happen to think there are ways to narrow the gaps, though how much higher we can go in graduation rates is another story. Second, whether we are already giving cheap degrees, and whether we risk giving more cheap degrees just to improve graduation rates. Given my position, I am not going to comment on the second item.



6/29/05
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS DOCUMENTARY AS MY INTERESTS LIE AROUND THESE SAME ISSUES. I AM CURRENTLY A MASTERS STUDENT IN HIGHER EDUCATION AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO PROVIDE ANY FEEDBACK/ SUGGESTIONS/ PARTICIPATE IN DISCUSSIONS AFTER I SEE THE DOCUMENTARY!


6/29/05
It's my business to study higher education--and to study the studies, the propaganda, and the reports. The studies are mechanical and largely useless; the propaganda of numbers is so full of dissonance and lies that it's enough to drive you up a wall; and, with rare exceptions, the reports and manifestos can be characterized as what Orwell called "blah." The media, in the meantime, is obsessed by glitz, so all we hear about is such representative places as Princeton. Give us this day our daily break! But across the pond, and under the Bologna Process, 29 countries are integrating their higher education systems and redoing real content standards in the process. We are going to be left in the dust!


6/29/05
Worth the wait! Pace, sequences, production, and editing did everything a presentation such as this one should do. The choices of Western Kentucky and Arizona, and their weight in the total screen time were brilliant 'cause that's where America goes to school, and you found the right students for the stories. You know that they all will eventually earn degrees of some kind--a tribute to persistence--but I loved someone else raising questions about the quality of those degrees (I'm not allowed to be direct about that). The faculty line was one that I paid less attention to in our original discussions about this vision than I should have: you used it very well, and it obviously deserves the emphasis. The talking heads--Lee, Christine, the guy who commented on the athletics enterprise--were focused and pointed.
So Learning Matters mattered very well!


6/29/05
This was an excellent program. I have been teaching college for nearly 15 years and have been increasingly disturbed by the very trends you cite, particularly the willingness of students to put forth effort to learn. It is time we paid attention to these issues, and you are on the cusp of bringing them forward. Please continue to keep this upfront and spread the word.


6/29/05
Comparing my daughter's PSAT scores from last year with past National Merit cutoff scores in South Dakota would indicate to me that she is most likely going to be qualified to be a semi-finalist this fall. I would like to have any information you feel appropriate sent to us. She is considering majors in political science, English, or psychology. Obviously it is very important to us to make the most financially of her academic ability and yes, unfortunately, my lack of financial resources as an educator parent. A list of schools that would most likely match U of AZ would be very helpful.


6/29/05
I came to the site because of the campus discussion of the TV show. Answered one of the questions and was disappointed in the sloppiness of the presentation in a site devoted to problems in education. Question had to do with majority number related to expense of attending a four year university and the claimed correct answer is B - $6,000 or less. But if B is correct then so is C and D. I know this is a picky issue but I am either being illogical or the creators of the site have not been careful and a problem one place makes me suspicious of the logic used other places. I did not answer any other questions.


6/29/05
It is outright shameful that foundations are paying big bucks for an "all white" group to discuss the status of higher education in this country. I plan to write to each foundation and make this very point. How on earth can you tell the whole truth when you are speaking for a euro-centric point of view? There are many high-level higher education administrators of color who can articulate the facts in a meaningful way, and who should have the opportunity to speak to the issue from their perspectives. Please do not add me to your email list.


6/28/05
I hope you do a sequel. I suggest you question the value of the so-called research that so many faculty spend time on. This can be done by looking in citation indexes to see how often the publications are cited by others. Also look at field like anatomy where new discoveries and breakthroughs are not likely, yet the subject is essential to some fields. Do they really need to publish to be good teachers? collapse

As for tenure, I suggest you look at other countries. Try the University of New South Wales in Sydney Australia. They have a tenure equivalent, but with a difference. There they need to show about 10 years of actual hands-on design experience -- the design of something that is actually built and used. In this country the majority of the engineering faculty have never designed anything that was ever built. To me that is like a person claiming to be a doctor, yet not ever having seen or talked with a patient.


6/28/05
I agree with most of John Merrow's assessment of higher education in 2005. However, an important point that was not fully addressed is the amount of committees and meetings faculty must participate in under the heading of "service" to the institution. Also, much of the work is advisory in nature, so after long hours of deliberation outcomes/findings do not have to be acted on by the administration. I could spend more time on teaching and/or undertake more research if not hampered with so many meetings each semester. collapse Service is usually tied to tenure and merit pay. And, yes I have sat on a committee for the last four years that along with other duties counts the number of committees (School, College, University) faculty have participated in and rank their level of participation! Finally, your program looked at the problems let us work together to find solutions.


6/28/05
I appreciate all the information available on the "Declining by Degrees" website. As a professional in higher education, I feel fortunate to work for an institution that rolls up its sleeves to help admit more lower-income students and to mentor more struggling students and turn them into success stories.


6/28/05
A simple solution is for Universities to receive increased funding to reduce class sizes and reward scholarship on pedagogy for all faculty and require them to apply it. I attended a small honors liberal arts undergraduate program attached to a large state university. The Honors College had its own separate faculty and class size was never above 20. Many course were team-taught. Classes were dialog-based with professors who students were typically on a first-name basis with. None of the weaknesses indicated in your program showed up in my undergraduate experience except one: student debt. collapse In my view, it is a pure national travesty to require so many students to, in essence, mortgage so much of their futures as a type of slave to banks just to be educated so they can make their contributions to society. Even given this, however, the solution to higher education's problems will never consist in a top-down "accountability" program that, in effect, will mean indirect standardization of students themselves.


6/27/05
For all the things this program did to highlight the current fiasco in education, it took a primarily moral and political point of view on the problem. Economic issues were only briefly touched upon during the interview with the Arizona basketball coach (who I'm sure doesn't have a detailed understanding for why universities exist). Everyone interviewed for the show is driven by incentives. I'm reminded of a quote from Fischer Black: "Professors should be rewarded for their teaching and not their research. That way, they might end up doing better research."


6/27/05
Riveting program regarding "higher" education - all those involved are to be commended.


6/27/05
Terrific analysis! I only wanted more! Bravo. It was odd for me to see so much footage of the University of Arizona, where I did graduate work 25 years ago. One time my program director stopped me and said, "I see you're wearing an 'Options in Education' T-shirt." I beamed with pride, glad to be associated with the wise John Merrow in some way. "I hate that show," the man said before turning on his heel and striding off.)


6/27/05
The issues raised ring true to me. As a former high school principal and a current university instructor, I feel that the American university system is failing our students. It is also failing its faculty with low pay, lack of tenure and too much emphasis on research over quality teaching. The traditional liberal arts education has given way to a "cafeteria-style" curriculum which is based too much on fads and making money over becoming a well-rounded person.


6/26/05
As a teaching assistant with large university in a NE Ohio, I have seen first hand the fall in standards for college students. I entered the graduate school here almost 20 years after I entered the same university as an undergraduate. Students today seem to feel, all they have to do is show up to class to pass. The "social promotion" system many high schools use leave students with this feeling. Remedial classes many students need are not mandatory and lead to students getting into a chemistry class without even having taken a science or algebra class in high school. This leads to first year courses that are taught at a high school level and students that have had science and math in high school having an easy time with the course work and not studying. Which leads some students to lose some of their good studying habits. collapse I have even had a few students tell me they paid to take this class and should pass for that reason alone. So are we going to run the college and universities as a business with the consumer always being right? Students do not seem to feel they have a responsibility in the learning process. The question I like to ask my students is: Have you ever gotten a bad grade from a good professor or a good grade from a bad professor? The overwhelming answer is always no. Which leads me to believe students, at least in their freshman year are more inclined to decide if a professor is good or not based on their grade and not what they have learned or could have learned.


6/26/05
You talked to too many administrators. It's a lot worse than you make out. And the whizzy-clicky lecture panacea doesn't work if the point of the class is to read "Madame Bovary" rather than stay awake for fifty whole minutes in a group of 300.


6/26/05
This was the best single reporting piece on higher education that I have seen in a decade. What was so frightening to me was the severe stratification that is taking place in terms of educational opportunities. At my college, we seem to always struggle to live out our mission because of the severe lack of fiscal resources. While I love teaching students and am not as prone to the "publish or perish" system at major research universities, the passivity of students and their lack of educational preparation reflected in the program is "front and center" for myself and my colleagues. Much energy is expended simply trying to make the subject matter interesting and finding ways of getting students involved in their own learning. collapse

One approach we have found helpful is experiential learning--particularly in regard to exposure to a variety of religious traditions. Every freshman must take a required weekend trip to Chicago where they meet people from Muslim, Jewish, and a variety of different Christian traditions. I find that after the trip students are much more interested in reading and learning about these respective faith groups. Thank you for an informative and challenging piece. I hope to urge my colleagues to see it for themselves.


6/26/05
I have been adjunct faculty (English and Humanities) at three community college districts in the East Bay/SF Bay Area for over 15 years. Your piece was wonderfully accurate in its portrayal except for the glaring omission of international/immigrant students and what they have to offer the college classroom. Isn't a college environment an arena where people from diverse backgrounds have a chance to discuss and question and share their perspectives about the materials and the learning process/academic inquiry itself?


6/26/05
During my four years at "one of the best" public universities in the U.S., U.C. Berkeley (1961 - 1965), no professor conducted a classroom discussion, or read a student paper. The bulk of the teaching was of the lecture regurgitation model, and the majority of real teaching was done only by graduate students, many of whom spoke English as a second language. The process killed my interest in nearly all academic areas. I vowed not to let my children suffer through a similar outrage. Uncovering the currently remaining pockets of quality college teaching took a lot of work. Men like Loren Pope (Looking Beyond the Ivy League) have done a great service in delineating the continuing contribution of high quality small undergraduate schools. collapse My daughter attended Grinnell College in Iowa, and my son went to Brandeis University in Massachusetts. Both institutions still feature small classes taught by skilled, experienced instructors. They received as good of a college education as is available in the U.S. today. Their experience was still deficient in many respects, however. The "school year" is really the school "half year", as the semesters are 13 weeks long. The nominal tuition is also ludicrous, reaching nearly $100.00 per hour for a seat in a classroom. The professors teaching the classes can be hired as private tutors for half that cost.

The amount of misinformation in the college selection process is also appalling. It takes a lot of work to find out who is teaching the classes, what class sizes and curriculums are, and what student outcomes are achieved after graduation. The director of admissions at Wesleyan, for example, flat out lied about graduate student teaching at his institution, claiming that none took place. The graduate manual for the school said clearly that all graduate students at Wesleyan were required to teach, which he repeatedly denied. I recently retired, and took an advanced Counterpoint class at the University of Maryland (senior/1st year graduate level). There was definitely an implicit agreement that neither the students nor the professor were going to work terribly hard. The work assigned was half that of similar classes taken at Berkeley 40 years previous, and the semester was 3 weeks shorter. Several students slept through the class, and there was little attempt on the part of the students to prepare for classroom discussions, which were held in what was basically an advanced seminar class.

My daughter studied at a University in China (Beijing Language University) in addition to her U.S. college. The Chinese semester is 20 weeks long, and students spend 20 hours a week in class, The Chinese instructors were highly qualified and very demanding. There are a billion Chinese, and many are extremely diligent in their studies. If our higher educational system continues along the path of mediocrity of the last 30 years, we're likely to become a second rate society.


6/26/05
This situation is too sad. Sad for the hard working students. Sad for the instructors. And especially terrifying for the country as a whole. And yet our "leadership" continues to sell us out to corporations. We are a generation from third world status. And most of us pretend this is inevitable (not) and an accident of economics (not). Looks intentional to me. collapse

We used to be a nation of problem solvers. Now this country, through Washington, D.C., creates the most horrific problems not just around the world but we at home are targeted as well with the added blessing of actually being allowed to pay for the privilege of hanging ourselves. It would be comedy if it were not so deadly real.

I wish I had the means to offer financial support to both the student named Ceylon and the young single mother who was penalized for getting married and had to drop out of school just before her semester ended. That is so cruel. But I know the experience. I had to drop out of first year law school (working during the day and school at night) just six weeks before finals because my job was terminated three months before and I did not secure other employment for another two months, though I looked everyday.


6/26/05
Your program just scratched the surface on decline of higher education. Currently, I am an engineering student at UA. Many of my instructors don't want to teach and they don't want to be bothered with students. For example, this past semester, I had a class which was supposed to meet once a week for 3 hours. Only on two occasions did the class meet for the entire time. Usually, we had class for less than thirty minutes. This was a required upper-division engineering course. collapse

Another major problem is trying to complete required courses. Many times classes are cancelled because there are not enough students signed up for the class. If a class is cancelled, the student is forced to find a substitution. Not all substitutions are accepted. If your major advisor doesn't like you, you'll have to wait until that class is offered again. You'll have to postpone your graduation date. As for the professor, he gets paid whether he has a class to teach or not. Every semester there are instructors whose classes are cancelled. They suffer no pay cuts. Why should the public pay for instructors not to teach? If a student complains, he can be forced out of his major and even out of his college. It is no small wonder that students just go with the flow. There is no other viable choice. All changes to the system need to come from the professors, deans, provost and the president.


6/26/05
Our PBS station in the Washington D.C. market just ran this program, today, on a Sunday afternoon. I think that its importance merits a prime time showing. As a parent with one daughter who is a senior in college and another just entering as a freshman this Fall, the program appeared to confirm a number of things that I feared but was not able to confirm directly. collapse

I recently went back to school after retiring from the Federal Gov't, as a non-degree student taking some undergraduate courses, just to keep the gray matter exercised. I have been taking these at a type of institution that was not included in the broadcast--a public, small university that up until recently used the term "college" in its name. Although it has been subjected to the vicissitudes of the state funding process, it has seemed to have weathered them well filling a gap between the Amherst and Western Kentucky models allowing the maintenance of reasonable quality for the cost. (I am judging the quality by my original 1960's undergraduate experience.) There may be others like it--colleges without large endowments that provide a good educational experience for their students. Perhaps in your future endeavors, these types of institutions may be worth looking into possibly providing some valuable insight in managing the looming problems detailed in your broadcast.

A final note: Tom Brokaw described his "Greatest Generation" as those who fought and won World War II. That generation also established the higher education infrastructure that accommodated the "bow wave" of baby boomers of which I was a member. I benefited from the State University of New York investments at the time attending a research university as the bulldozers were still there building it. This, to me, was another accomplishment of that Greatest Generation. I fear that my generation has not lived up to that standard given the state of higher education today as the "echo boomers" enter college.


6/26/05
As a community college educator, I wish the program had delved more into the benefits of attending a community college. These benefits are far beyond the open admissions and cheaper tuition. CC's provide the small classes, personal attention, a teaching/learning mission, a level of engagement with faculty and staff that the larger universities struggle to provide. Though the statistics seem to indicate a poor retention and graduation rate, these numbers are not the entire story. collapse Many of our students don't plan to obtain an associate's degree. They may only need one or two classes to update their workforce skills. They may obtain all the credits needed for a transfer to a 4-year institution, but do not care about the 2-year degree, only the credits. They may start one semester, leave for a couple of semesters, return again, etc. as the ebb & flow of their lives allow them to the luxury of taking classes. I'm afraid that’s how Declining by Degrees depicted community college! They were depicted as the "last resort" rather than as a positive choice. I have always believed that a person who desires a quality education is able to seek it out at any institution. There are good and bad teachers at every college, just as there are motivated and unmotivated students at each. I believed in our college's mission when I recently had a conversation with a student who travels 30 miles across the "Valley of the Sun" to attend our particular college, even though there is another college within 5 miles of her house. She said she came to our college because it is known as the "Harvard of Community Colleges."

I do appreciate that you've raised awareness and concern about bad practices and experiences facing students entering higher education. We need to be vigilant and clearly have a lot of work ahead of us to improve our system in order to renew the social covenant. We also need to be concerned about not just access, but the genuine opportunity. In addition, we need to look at the entire spectrum of our education from pre-school through higher education to provide the foundation necessary to increase opportunity for all. However, I do hope you'll offer a sequel to your program showcasing the good practices that do exist at many of our colleges and universities. We are finding these good practices at four-year universities and at community colleges. Project DEEP, in which Dr. Kuh is involved is uncovering some of these good practices. We have an opportunity to emulate these good practices.

You've set the stage. You've shown us some of the problems. Now, let's move ahead to solutions by seeing how some colleges and universities have overcome these problems.

Thank you for the opportunity to share my views.


6/26/05
The reason so many kids in college are used to doing very little and getting good grades is that many are the "high achieving" students in a very mediocre public school education system. This is no mystery. Foreign students I knew at college back in the 1970s were amazed at how easy our curriculum was even at the graduate level. collapse

We need to look at how other high-achieving countries are handling these issues. India is one example. Our lower education is watered down, and our college education has become watered down in all but the very top colleges. We are living in a fool's paradise if we think we can continue down this path. Our idea that everyone is the same is getting in the way of helping those with superior ability get ahead.

We have depended on foreigners with superb educations already under their belts coming here and being researchers, doctors, etc. Many of these people have been from China and India, and they can now stay home and do quite well with no cultural adjustment required. We need to start actually helping our own high-achieving kids get a good education, and not just the ones lucky enough to have parents with the money to buy a home in a "good" school district.

This situation will be a tragedy on a personal level as well as a national level. We need "home grown" well educated people, and we don't need large numbers of people heavily in debt from financing educations that fail to make them competitive in a global job market. Question here is, do we have the will or ability to get it together quickly enough to do anything about this or will we debate and table resolutions and order studies endlessly hoping to avoid doing anything?!


6/26/05
I am writing this comment for the simple fact that obviously I was touched by the topic, I've gone through it and I am still going through the injustices of the educational system of the USA. As a young student going from elementary school till present community college, I have been underestimated as person with the capacity to be challenged. Born and raised in Bronx, New York, already was a course to us people who really desired and still desire a decent education. My teachers' lack of preparation, lack of materials and oversized classes made it difficult for them to give us the best of their performance. I remember being constantly ignored when I asked questions that fairly were head of what I was "suppose" to be thought or answered difficult questions that the teachers were astonished because they weren't expecting for me to know. collapse In other words my teachers sow my talents and my desires to go ahead in class and instead of giving me the tools they ignored me, making me cripple. I know I could still go ahead in life because I'm still young, buy my desires to learn aren't same now as they use to be. Basically most of the knowledge that I've acquired has been on my own or through public television. It is almost impossible to believe that I didn't know how bad my grammar was until I was forced to take a remedial course in basic grammar in my first year in college. We shouldn't be embarrassed about what we don't know; it is the system that should be responsible for our miss-education. All of these discrepancies are still affecting me today because college is just a business and almost all are filled with underqualified "professor."


6/26/05
Fascinating discussion... simply fascinating. And they say we need to cut funding for public television...ridiculous!!


6/26/05
I have $63,000 in student loan debt, and I pay 373 dollars a month for 21 more years. I am a mother of a three year old and I am trying to have another child. Given my desire to reduce my earning power at this time to be home for my children, how will I afford to save for their education while I am still paying for my own? This is a dead end in that my family will be paying students loans for generation after generation. I feel a black cloud is following me and I cannot feel that I will ever get out from under it. My retirement savings is being affected also.


6/26/05
I am a non-traditional student at Benedict College in Columbia, SC. It is a black liberal arts college that has had a lot of controversy over what is called the See Policy. The SEE policy requires all instructors at Benedict College to evaluate each freshman and sophomore student on two factors: effort and content learning. The final grade for freshmen is weighted 60 percent on effort and 40 percent on content knowledge and the final grade for sophomores is weighted 40 percent effort and 60 percent content knowledge. The policy is designed to increase student learning of subject matter content at Benedict College by increasing a student’s learning efforts. Viewing this documentary show me that most colleges have some form of the policy, even if unstated. collapse Often minority students are view as uninterested, underachieving, unmotivated, and often exercising poor judgment in the areas of careless behavior such as drinking and sexing. This program shows that these whites engage in the same behaviors just as often and maybe more but little or no attention is paid to them when it come to these issues.


6/26/05
I attended a small, progressive liberal arts college for my undergraduate degree and later chose a large, research-focused institution for my Master's degree. After I'd taken all the graduate-level classes available for my MA, I had to "fill-in" my degree with undergraduate classes taken for graduate credit in exchange for a bit more work.

I was shocked by both the lack of interest and dedication on the part of many students, and the lack of attention and enthusiasm by the faculty. Students were upset when the professor allowed what we were learning to shape our schedule and many faculty feel that if the student hasn't learned the basics already, then they can't be taught. collapse

Although I think one can receive an excellent education at larger, state universities, most students really are-as you say-"treading water." I was at first shocked by this discovery, angry in fact, and I reacted by fighting against the inertia -- but as time went on I let it all go and got out of the experience what I could. Sure, savvy students will get what they want from this kind of experience, but it's disheartening.

I worry about the academic model. What I mean is this. The students who succeed in graduate school are the ones who are self-driven and often a bit anti-social…and to their credit, you kind of have to be to really excel in the very narrow and long path of research, thesis and long-term academic research required in academia. But, the skills and personality necessary to accomplish brilliant research is often at odds with the (usually untaught) skills and personality to be a brilliant teacher. They can co-exist, but that's not the status quo.

One of my biggest worries is not about teaching -- it's about the corporatization of universities. If we follow the model of corporations funding higher education in earnest, we allow a public good to be dependent on a few key companies and these will then be out of our (the public's) control. And likely, due to corporate consolidation, these companies are a huge segment of the economy. What if -- like we're experiencing with GM now -- one of the higher education supporting companies threatens to go belly-up? Not only will this cause the American economy to stumble, but higher education as well.


6/24/05
You faced the brutal facts. Combined, my husband and I have a 35 years teaching experience. We watched your program with great interest. We have given our students a plethora of strategies for learning. Like antibiotics, the learning virus has mutated and the medicine is not touching the disease of mediocrity.


6/24/05
Thank you for your program; I look forward to reading the companion book. I have been going to school in the sciences off and on for 16 years and am now a PhD student. I believe your show demonstrated aptly many of the problems in today's college classrooms. The inability to question, reason, and extend seems to abound. collapse

I think part of the driving force behind the problem was included in the program, although hidden. The goal for the parents, students, and colleges seems to be "prepare these students for a job." A person that is educated and can think will be able to find and keep employment. Merely tossing facts at a person doesn't give the required skills. I would refer anyone that is interested to the book: A Thomas Jefferson Education. The goals of an education are elucidated quite clearly there.

We all need employment so as not be a burden on society and to maintain the expansion of the economy, but the way to get there is not to fill in the blank in your subject of choice. The job sector needs workers that are resilient, creative, and can anticipate. All that multiple choice, short answer, etc. teaches is the ability to anticipate the material the instructor finds important, and not even that if an intensive review is given.

I lament the number of times I have heard, "but I don't know what the teacher wants." Unfortunately, the answer may be tenure or to be paid a living wage for the time spent preparing, teaching, and grading. Both of which are incompatible with spending copious amounts of time with students who are, in the main, interested in a break, a hint, or some other advantage.

Most days after classes, students are not bubbling over the material (even at higher education levels) rather they are complaining about unfair grading or too much work, if they talk about school at all. If you sense frustration, you sense correctly. Education should be more than just a check mark and the road to a 9-5 job. Our democracy depends on it.


6/24/05
I thought your program was very well done - many perspectives were given, and it accurately reflected the frustrating situation that exists in colleges now, where students have learned in high school that they don't need to study much outside of class (or that memorization is the way to go), faculty have an increasing pressure placed on them to be productive in research but are not awarded for good teaching, and administrators are forced to treat education as a business because of the declining funding for education. It is very sad to see students that are unashamed to admit that they party their way through college and still maintain high GPA's, and nice to see students say that they want a greater challenge. collapse

However, what I think was missing from your program is what happens when students do encounter a challenge - they often meet it with hostility, and/or are shocked that they really do need to spend 2-3 hours outside of class for every hour in class. Students have become so accustomed to classes that don't make heavy demands on them that they find such classes to be unfair and overly difficult - they tend to blame the professor if their study habits don't work for them.

I personally spend my lecture hour as a mix between lecturing, asking questions, and having students solve sample problems. Most students (approx 100 per class) will agree that the class is engaging and stimulating, and I tend to get high numbers on my evaluations. Yet I don't give study guides and I ask that they apply their understanding on exams - this is viewed as bizarre and generally unfair by most students. In any case, congratulations on a great program. I have recommended it to my colleagues.


6/24/05
I am a working adult that is trying to obtain an advanced practice degree in my profession. I have a 3.95 GPA but am unable to get scholarship money (that I am told is there) to fund my education. My oldest child will need to go to college when I am finished. I wonder where do we get the money? I feel I am smart, talented and have proven I am a good financial investment, but I have to mortgage my career to advance in my practice. collapse

A comment to Lute Olsen and the powers at U of A. The huddled masses struggle to get into and through college without going bankrupt, while people who were never interested in getting an education get a free ride, and get to walk away without any obligation. Is it fair to hang the rest of us with that bill? If one third of the money spent on scholarships for potential sports heroes were dedicated toward the recruitment of nurses, this country would not be facing the healthcare crisis that is going to crush the baby boomer generation. I hope they will contemplate this while they lie unattended in an understaffed hospital or nursing home, as that day is coming.


6/24/05
Developmental Education is a complex subject. Sometimes, it is a matter of a student not getting some material from the high school experience. I work at a career college where the average age of an incoming student is 30 years old. This individual has potentially been out of high school for a long time. Family, work, maybe some college has taken up this time for the last 10-12 years. At our institution the number of new students who test into at least one developmental course is approximately 70 percent. One has to wonder how people are functioning in society without the reading and math skills for approximately 12 years before an attempt is made to begin a college degree.


6/24/05
I thought the program was excellent. You have fairly captured the conditions prevailing in contemporary American universities. I have two critical observations. 1) What is the breaking point? At what point will all the problems discussed in the program cause the system to break down to the point at which those with clout (administrators, students, parents, legislators) will say that things need to change drastically? The program ended with graduating students happily receiving their degrees. The adjunct philosophy professor is still teaching at his meager salary, as is the full professor who has no incentive to teach more effectively. The students priced out of school found their way to community college, and no one will fret about their future. 2) How will the system change if those who run universities (presidents, top administrators) are the system's biggest apologists? collapse Every currently employed president or coach interviewed in the show defended the status quo. So you have produced a great exposé, but you have given no indication of how anything will change. The show made me more rather than less pessimistic because it brilliantly exposed problems that are structurally inherent in the modern university.


6/24/05
This was one of the best and most comprehensive programs I have ever seen and confirmed my worries that our education system is in real trouble. I sincerely hope this program is shown again and again on PBS so I can make sure all my family and friends see it. Thank you for producing such a high quality and needed program.


6/24/05
Your show really exposed many of the critical areas of higher education that the general public needs to know more about. We still live in a country where there is a "magical" or "mythical" quality attributed to higher education that a mere mortal cannot question the staff or faculty. Higher education is the only self-regulating industry that has for years kept the general public in the dark, so that they do not have to be accountable. One area that your documentary did not include is the movement to the "vocationalization" of higher education. The need to get a job with skills learned in college is most of the time at odds with a faculty who would not know how to hold a job in the non-academic world, nor care to be informed to assist students to understand their chosen field of interest. collapse

I believe that there needs to be restructuring/reengineering of higher education from the top down -- the waste, incompetence’s and lack of accountability should not be tolerated in a country that is quickly loosing its place as a learning society. Now days, with grade inflation, and the general malaise in the students attending the open access university where I teach -- to give me an "A" for just attending the class, and tolerated by the administration, we are sinking into a wasteland of college graduates, but not college educated. When will state legislatures finally say "enough" and demand accountability for our tax dollars!


6/24/05
I haven't watched the program yet, but plan to. I heard some of John's interview on a Sacramento radio station yesterday morning, and while I agree that some schools are not providing a true education, I have to acknowledge how great mine was.

I attended Reedley College, a junior college in a small farming town near Fresno, where I was in the Honors Program. I had wonderful teachers who cared if you showed up, engaged the students, and mentored me. In particular, my math teacher gave me the idea to be an engineer, and my English teacher is a mentor and friend to this day. The community college experience doesn't have to be "high school with ashtrays." As with the university, one gets what one puts in. collapse

At UC Davis, I majored in Biological Systems Engineering. That department is awesome! Although the professors are involved in research, the undergraduates are still nurtured and taught a tough curriculum. But we didn't just learn theory and facts, we were also told about how things would be in the working world. Many of the professors had also worked in industry or had their own farms or other businesses, plus they maintained contact with former students. So they were able to prepare us for our post-college work. The curriculum was very demanding--one didn't just "get by." In fact, the dean of the engineering college told one of my Mechanical Engineering friends that they did want to break us down, much like the military does. Although the work was difficult, the professors were available for questions and office hours. They knew us by name (my class had about 50 students) and cared about our lives.

Thank you for letting me share my experience.


6/24/05
As nations decline, they become more complex and more competitive for every crumb of bread; truth becomes harder to find. The children of the wealthy stroll through expensive finishing schools smirking at the children of the poor and middle class who actually believe that knowledge will improve their lot.

Connections - who one knows, not what one knows - still rules the day. The wealthy do not want liberally educated citizens who can think critically; they want well-trained drones who can turn a wrench, fix a computer, or type a well sculpted phrase. Well educated, critically thinking citizens tend to want to examine what is going on behind the curtains of the statehouse or the White House or the Senate. Very inconvenient.


6/24/05
I'm a college professor at a regional state university in Missouri. I just watched the program "Declining By Degrees" on PBS last night. Parts of the show I agreed with, especially the increasing corporatization of the university and the lack of state funding, which shuts out the poorer (and minority) students the most. But some of the program bothered me, partly because I think some of what was identified as a problem is first, not necessarily true at all institutions, and second, not necessarily a problem. collapse

To clarify I need to let you know more about my experiences. I've taught in higher education for 30 years, but I've also taught in secondary school, and have a teaching degree. I was a "freeway flyer" adjunct, then a temporary faculty at two state universities, prior to getting on the tenure track at CMSU. I've been here 17 years, and have risen through the ranks to become a full professor. CMSU is a comprehensive regional state university, with approximately 11,000-12,000 students total, offering M.A. as well as bachelor degrees. Increasingly, our students are coming in from two-year colleges, or returning to school as adults, although we still get a lot straight from high school. Many of our students are first generation college students and work to go to school.

However, the students and programs here are not necessarily suffering the problems you identified. While binge drinking exists, it is not done by 39% of our students, if local surveys are to be believed. Since many of our students work, and have families, that is not surprising. CMSU currently recognizes and rewards good teaching in tenure and promotion decisions, although increasingly we also are asked to do research. Normally we have a 4/4 load, which is high for a university that also wants research. We can get a reduction if we are willing to teach big classes. Although for years we have held the line on adjunct (part-time) faculty, increasingly the state budget has not matched needs, and as professors retire, all too often their lines are eliminated, replaced by temporary or part-time faculty. Still, in my department, communication, we try our best to argue for full-time tenure-line replacements, and to obtain the best faculty we can afford. It is a diverse faculty, with the majority of us with PhDs, yet more dedicated to teaching than pure research. The lack of funding is indeed a problem, but we have tried not to let it influence our teaching or standards. First, CMSU is part of statewide assessment of programs, with departments required to assess their majors. We also do a general university-wide assessment of general education. In addition, we attempt to hold "standards" (although some of us are leery of that term, since it has been used to discriminate against persons in the past). For example, in my department faculty do not give out high percentages of A grades, even to major students. In my own classes, the vast majority of grades over the past years have been Cs and Bs. I do think there is some creep up, where B is becoming more like C, but we try very hard to discourage the notion that a C is like a failing grade. Even in the majority of my graduate and senior classes, I rarely have more than 25% A grades (the only exception to this are specialized seminars). This is true despite increasing focus on retention and "enrollment management."

I like to think many students are challenged in my classes, even in the big general education lecture class I teach (100 students each semester). It is hard to get high grades without coming to class and reading at least part of the readings, although there always are some students who can do that, who could get an A grade without reading much and just cramming for tests. Those students probably could achieve well at an ivy-league school, but are at the state school for a variety of reasons. This is not a new phenomenon, by the way--indeed, I was one of those students at my state college during my first year in 1968. I went there in part for financial reasons, as I also had to work part-time to help put myself through college.

Those bright students probably aren't very challenged, at least not always, but that is not necessarily a problem of the teaching. We do have an honors program for good students, but not all are enrolled in it. The problem may have more to do with student immaturity than anything else. I know in my own case that once I got married (at 19 to my first spouse) I was a lot more serious in my education.

And that leads me to what seems to be considered a problem in the documentary, but may not be, and that is student expectation and motivation, coupled with presumably uninspired teaching. It is true many professors could improve, and we have a Center for Teaching and Learning on campus designed to help (yes, it is voluntary, but many go). More up-to-date (and working) equipment would also help us vary our classes beyond lecture. Some profs may be complicit in a "pact" of mutual low expectations with their students, but not all of us. In my classes, I always require at least one or more papers--even in my 100 student classes. Even though I have a G.A. to help I'm the one who grades these papers, and who provides extensive feedback (I have taught composition before). I'm not alone in my department. I'm not sure papers are needed in every class, but I give them in mine. I also have a heavy load of reading for upper level and graduate classes (some would say the lower levels as well). I expect much from my students. Again, I am not alone. It is true that I do give some objective tests, especially in my large classes, but I disagree that these are always problematic. I took testing and measurement, plus statistics, in my own college degrees, and I spend a lot of time making the best (most reliable and valid) instruments I can. I also have other ways of assessing student performance beyond papers and exams, including group work and discussion, even in the large classes. Some work better than others, but overall I think I'm a good teacher--at least my students and peers seem to think so. We don't have a teaching award at CMSU, so I can't claim that, but I get good evaluations overall, and many students take more than one class from me.

What I have discovered over the years of teaching is that I need to do more "high school" level things with my students to assuage their anxieties (as well as meet state requirements)--I give out a large syllabus, I have a message board, I provide exam study guides, even practice questions, sample papers, etc. Overall, they need more handholding, even the smart ones. The main difference between them and myself at their age was I often took it upon myself to make connections between classes, and to do extra reading, especially as I got older and took courses I did find both challenging and engaging. I don't expect that out of the ordinary student, but the bright ones don't do it either--probably because they don't know how. Unlike some of the professors profiled, I do have students come to talk to me--they e-mail me, or phone me, or come by the office. Not all of them, and unfortunately, not those who really need to. Usually it is the good students who are "freaked out" because the subject is hard and they have to work at it.

In summary, the declining financial support of higher education is a problem, but I'm not sure about the rest. It struck me in watching the program that most of those schools seemed to be doing just fine with their more limited funds. And many of the students followed also were doing okay. Although the program was focused on perceived problems, I wish it also had included other examples of success beyond those noted.


6/24/05
Yes, we need to move our focus from teaching to learning and ask the question of "How do we know our students are learning"? This was an excellent thought-provoking program that hopefully will help us all to rethink teaching and learning at our colleges and universities. It was timely for our institution since 5 of us just returned from a Learning College Summit.


6/24/05
I was riveted by this program. I've always known there is a serious problem with our college system in America but this program put all the pieces together in a clear and disturbing manner. I currently have a child in college, one going to college in 2 years and a third who will enter the system in 13 years. The only way we know how to put our kids through college without incurring major debt is athletics. We are fortunate enough to have athletically gifted children and have the resources to compete for those few scholarships. I was saddened by the stories of those young women you highlighted in the program who had to work full-time while going to school. I hope they realize their dreams. Thank you for producing this program. I only hope our elected officials saw the program and will bring the issues forward to national attention. I am so tired of our politicians dealing with things that don't really matter and not paying enough attention to our children and the future of our nation. A great piece of journalism.


6/24/05
Working on my PhD and instructing grad and undergrad courses, the information provided in the program is not surprising but alarming.